“Since 1997 I have been working in Hong Kong, London and Beijing. First with Simmons & Simmons, then Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer, and finally, via a firm which I co-founded in Beijing in 2002. During this time, I have continued to see tremendous use of governing law clauses referring to England and Wales”, writes Matthew Murphy founder MMLC Group in an article for The Law Society Gazzette, UK.

In a recent article Murphy examined how English law is being used in different jurisdictions. His research led to exciting discoveries on the confidence and trust multinationals and Asian partners place in English law.

Conversely, Fidel Albert’s encounter during legal proceedings at the Supreme Court of Newfoundland & Labrador, St. John’s, Canada raised concerns about the gaps and inefficiencies in the Nigerian judicial system. The Nigeria based legal practitioner said being involved in the case GOSL v. Marport Robotics, led to a voyage of many discoveries.

Matthew Murphy’s story

In the late 1990s, I ran English and international law training seminars for leading People’s Republic of China (PRC) lawyers in Hong Kong and London. It was here that I first noticed their enthusiasm, in that they were keen to understand English and common law concepts.

Given that the modern PRC legal system is akin to a Germanic civil system, many common law concepts and practices initially seem quite fascinating for local PRC lawyers, and there has always been an eagerness to learn how English law has developed and is applied in practice.

Most cross-border work that I have seen over the years while working in Hong Kong and Beijing has been in the capital markets, mergers and acquisitions (M&A), intellectual property (IP) and technology, media and telecommunications (TMT) licensing practice areas.

During this time, I noticed that for those transactions involving UK-based multinationals and Asian partners, most agreements involved governing law clauses referring to the laws of England and Wales.

Several Asia-wide IP/TMT licensing agreements that I worked on over the years for a well-known and diversified UK-based group, saw English law as the happy compromise between the UK licensor and various Asian licensees based in several key Asian hubs, illustrating the trust that many experienced international lawyers place in English law.

Often negotiations commenced with Asian licensees seeking to have agreements governed by their own local laws, with third-party jurisdictions often posed as alternatives. In the end though, English law would win out.

The use of English governing law clauses, coupled with dispute resolution clauses designating Hong Kong-based arbitration centres – such as the Hong Kong International Arbitration Centre (HKIAC) – for dealing with disputes seems to be a popular strategy these days, especially for UK and Hong Kong-based multinationals when they are negotiating commercial and transactional agreements with PRC and Asian partners.

Hong Kong arbitration providers, including the HKIAC, always have a pool of experienced solicitors admitted in England and Wales on their panels, including myself. They are also in a unique position compared with arbitration centres in other jurisdictions as they have provisions for asset protection and other procedural remedies through special arrangements set up between Hong Kong and Beijing.

We are also seeing English law being used as a potential choice for US multinationals, when US and PRC parties are unable to agree on which governing law clause to use in commercial agreements. There is enthusiasm for the consideration of English law, particularly if the PRC parties have operations in the UK and a familiarity with English law.

What would you advise a client who is debating a choice of law to govern contracts in the Asia region?

Like any transaction, these decisions will come down to the where the parties are based, their sophistication in handling international laws, how the dispute resolution procedures are negotiated and how fast access to pre-trial remedies could be sought if an agreement was breached.

If these issues are taken into account and English law is a good fit for the agreement, it’s worth pursing English governing clauses in these agreements, provided it is for the benefit of all parties, they are educated on common law and equitable principles and understand how disputes are determined under English law.

Fidel Albert’s story

The case was GOSL v. Marport Robotics. Proceedings were pending before the Supreme Court of Newfoundland & Labrador, St. John’s, Canada. This case came with lots of lessons and experiences for me, especially as it concerns the gaps and inefficiencies in the Nigerian judicial system.

I think I had just left paid employment to set up our little shop with my partner. We were both 5 years at the Bar when we decided to take this leap of faith. We were briefed by a Nigerian Client to institute legal action in Canada for breach of contract against a Canadian company. Of course we were not licensed to practice law in Canada, so we needed a top-rated Canadian law firm to lead us.

It took us six months of intense search to find a good law firm willing to take the brief. And this was not for lack of good law firms in Canada. There are hundreds of them. Problem was, no one was willing to touch a brief from Nigeria with a 10-meter pole!! Once they hear “Nigeria”, they’ll politely tell you they’re not interested, and hang up. Firm after firm, this is what confronted us. No one wanted to take a big commercial brief, whether they would make money from it or not, as long as it came from Nigeria. It was an extremely depressing experience.

Eventually, a large firm agreed to handle the brief, after much persuasion and cajoling from me. But then, I didn’t know they had done intensive due diligence on me before accepting. One night, I got a call from my former boss, Babatunde Irukera, demanding to know what business I had to do in Canada. I told him I had some prospective litigation we were trying to get going there. He said well, Aelex (one of the biggest firms in Nigeria) just called him to confirm who I was and whether I had worked with Simmonscooper Partners as I claimed, and he graciously confirmed that I was legitimate. So, it turns out that the Canadian law firm had engaged one of the biggest law firms in Nigeria to undertake due diligence on me, for a fee I reckon, before accepting a legal brief from me. Interesting!

All said and done, the case was filed and I had to attend the Discovery Proceedings in Canada. Lawyers would understand what this means. It was during the proceedings that this picture was taken. So Discovery Proceedings is simply where parties meet on the record to examine each other’s documents, narrow down issues of disputes, examine witnesses and perhaps make admissions. It helps to streamline the case of each party preparatory to trial. Proceedings are recorded and are undertaken under oath. It’s a very tedious process.

But I saw strange things. I’ll tell you one of those. In the course of proceedings, the Defendant’s Counsel handed us a bundle of documents that it would rely on at trial. We were supposed to examine each one, ask questions on it and indicate if we had any objections to admissibility of the documents. I remember clearly that while examining the documents, the opposing counsel stopped us abruptly, and indicated to us that we had missed examining a key document in the bundle and that he believes we ought to examine that document. We asked him which document he was referring to, and he flipped the bundle and extracted the document he thought we missed, and kept it on the table. Fair enough. So I took a look at this document and couldn’t believe it. This single document was enough to bury their entire case, yet the Counsel felt himself under a bounded obligation to draw our attention to it, to the detriment of his own case!!

I reflected this matter for a long time, and kept thinking of the judicial system in my own country. After the proceedings, I asked my lead Counsel, Liam, why the opponent did what he did. Liam looked at me bemused, perhaps wondering why I, as a lawyer, should ask such stupid question when I ought to know. But he did eventually tell me that if the man did not disclose the document, he would have been disbarred. It’s an extremely serious infraction in their judicial system, according to Liam.

I thought about the Nigerian judicial system again and what it has become in recent times. You see, in our Bar, honest disclosure by lawyers is a very strange phenomenon. Lawyers actively and deliberately conceal and suppress facts and evidence that they consider injurious to their case. More worrisome is the fact that we do so under oath. Let’s say I was the opposing counsel in that case, what I would have done, and what my client would gladly pay me to do, would have been to burn that adverse evidence and then have my junior in chambers swear under oath that such document never existed. And the oath ends with a phrase “so help me God”! But I kid you not, this is even not the worse things that happen on a daily basis at the Bar! Worse things happen.

I have personally seen a lot in my few years at the Nigerian Bar. Sometimes I’m left wondering what has become of this our profession. Unfortunately, there are no consequences, especially for the big guys who have exerted lots of sweat to institutionalize these terrible practices. It was supposed to be a profession of nobility, but sadly, except for a few, you can’t find integrity at the Bar. Even worse, the system seems to reward unethical conducts. I have seen people who should not be lawyers at all on account of a total lack of integrity become Senior Advocates of Nigeria. It almost seems as though the harder you dig in the mud, the more likely you are to strike gold. So the Bar has become a huge stampede in mud and grime.

So do you still wonder why the international legal community will scarcely take the Nigerian lawyer serious? Out there, far more premium is placed on integrity and rectitude, than knowledge or wealth. And this is the problem. Our Bar is very knowledgeable, our Bar is wealthy, but our Bar is rather scant on integrity.  

How is it that many multinational companies will rather lose a deal in Nigeria than sign a contract where forum for dispute resolution and governing law is stated as Nigeria? I’m talking about contracts that are signed in Nigeria, where the work is to be executed in Nigeria, and where all the parties are in Nigeria! But when it comes to the dispute resolution and/or governing law clauses, they insist to the death that any dispute arising from the contract must be resolved in courts of other jurisdictions, not Nigeria. In fact, if you insist on NIGERIA, they will rather walk away from that deal, no matter how much profit they were to make, than leave jurisdiction to Nigerian Courts! Ever wondered the effect of this? Do we not know that that is work taken away from Nigerian lawyers? Or that that is transaction and litigation experience taken away from the Nigerian lawyer, which we will never have?

Even our own Government, when they have huge projects to execute in Nigeria, hire international law firms to undertake work for them. The most benefit we get from these deals is that government will hire some of our local law firms to piggy-back and act as “assistants” (but they use respectable appellations like “co-counsel”, “co-solicitors” to describe their role) to these international law firm to do the work. Our government won’t even trust its own local firms. You know, this reminds me of what my boss used to say ever so often to us when he wanted to underscore the importance of exhibiting integrity in all our dealings. He would say “do you know that even a thief will always look for an honest man to keep the quarry for him?”? Think about it, it’s the gospel truth. 

And yet we strut around like peacocks with so much hubris, seemingly oblivious to the fact that our conduct in destroying the moral fabric of this profession will perpetually keep us as bottom feeders, where we wallow in the shallows waters, forever banished from the deep ends of the oceans, where international law firms are raking the bottoms of their priceless bounties. But I have no pity. We laid this bed of thorns with our own hands, let’s enjoy the sleep!

When you read the English decision in IPCO v. NNPC, and how the English Courts terribly x-rayed the Nigeria legal system under the harshest light possible, your heart will melt. Mine melted. Despite a heroic attempt at patriotism, I knew there was truth somewhere in there.  

IPCO v. NNPC is a decision where a party got an arbitration award against the defendant, NNPC, in an international arbitration. Before he could enforce the award, the defendant filed an action in the NIGERIAN courts to set aside the award. The plaintiff joined issues in the new suit in the NIGERIAN courts but thereafter went to the UK to file an action for enforcement of the award, while a challenge of same award was pending in Court in Nigeria.

Many questions faced the UK Court in the enforcement proceedings, but the one that caught my attention was whether enforcement could proceed in the UK, while proceedings to set aside the same award sought to be enforced was pending in Nigeria! Normally, the UK court should have waited for the Nigerian challenge proceedings which came before the enforcement proceedings in UK. But the UK Court didn’t think it was that easy and straightforward because of the country involved. The UK Court spent a great deal of time x-raying the unfairness of Nigerian legal system and how the concept of justice was fleeting on account of inexplicable delays and questions of integrity. In the end, the Court settled for requiring the Defendant, NNPC, to make deposits of huge sums as security before a stay of the UK proceedings could be ordered.

While I am not unaware of the appeal processes in the IPCO v. NNPC case and variations to the orders of the lower Court that were eventually made by the House of Lords, I still find it distressing that the world has taken judicial notice of what we have made of our judicial system.

I fear that if something drastic is not done to reposition our Bar and the entire justice administration system, I fear that if we do not raise the bar of the Bar, this Bar of ours will be reduced to rowdy sessions of inebriate fellows at a raucous bar. We will have a bar without the Bar.

We wait!

“Until each woman takes charge of her life, gender violence will not end.” –Ogechi Abu

She is a seasoned legal practitioner with interest in all forms of dispute resolution mechanisms. A feminist with keen interest in the rights of women and children. A staunch member of the International Federation of Women Lawyers (FIDA) Nigeria, Abuja Branch, Ogechi Abu, Notary Public and immediate past Vice Chairperson of the Nigerian Bar Association Abuja Branch (Unity Bar) has also served as Secretary of FIDA Abuja and Publicity Secretary of FIDA Nigeria. She spoke with Lillian Okenwa on a wide range of issues.

“The surge in underage rape and Gender Based Violence (GBV) is nothing short of an abomination and glaring evidence of moral/social depravity and legal inefficiency in the country”, said Ogechi Abu.

Indeed, the impact on victims, particularly young people’s psychological and physical health can be shattering, especially given that this developmental period is when young people should be developing and refining intimacy skills in close relationships. Unfortunately, most of these close relationships have been grossly abused.

Today, about five times more women than men have been victims GBV or direct sexual assault and young adults are at especially high risk. What is remarkable about sexual assault is that despite years of research and public health interventions, there has been little change. Even more interesting is that in Nigeria, sexual assault cuts across ethnic groups. None is exempt; neither is it more predominant in some geopolitical zones.

Heather Murphy of New York Times in 2017 wrote about the unusual newspaper ad placed in newspapers throughout Los Angeles by a Ph.D. candidate at Claremont Graduate University in 1976. The ad reads:

The advertiser, Samuel D. Smithyman according to Murphy, sat by his phone, “skeptical that it would ring. But the phone did ring nearly 200 times.

“At the other end of the line”, she wrote “were a computer programmer who had raped his ‘sort of girlfriend,’ a painter who had raped his acquaintance’s wife, and a school custodian who described 10 to 15 rapes as a means of getting even with ‘rich bastards’ in Beverly Hills.”

By the end of the summer, the now 72 year – old South Carolina based Dr. Samuel D. Smithyman had completed 50 interviews, which became the foundation for his dissertation: “The Undetected Rapist.” What was particularly surprising to him was how normal these men sounded and how diverse their backgrounds were.

Recently, the social media was assailed by photos of the remains of Aisha Muhammed. Remains of the 11 year-old was exhumed from a pit toilet by the Yobe State Criminal Investigation and Intelligence Department (CIID) in company of FIDA and NCWS (National Council of Women Society) after she was raped and mutilated by one Sani Saleh (35years). Sani confessed to the crime after he was arrested by the police in Fika for another offence of rape against one Kailatu Shuaibu (15 years).

Again, a Chief Magistrate’s Court in Zuba Abuja is currently sitting over a matter related to the defilement of an 8 year old by her biological father. A relation the child confided in confirmed the act when the child pointed out their waste-bin where her father disposed blood stained condoms he used the previous day. 

Could this really be a shadow pandemic or the sign of a deepening creepy mental health challenge in the society? That perhaps will be for psychologists and psychiatrists to answer but Ogechi Abu did bare her mind on GBV and similar matters.

L&S: There seem to be a rise in gender based violence particularly within this period that the world has witnessed and still witnessing the Covid-19 pandemic.

Answer: Yes and it is not difficult to see why, because there is a lot of psychological factors. Covid-19 came with so many challenges and shook an already brittle society or an already fragile system. So, if you had a situation for instance, an already fractured relationship where parties who don’t see eye to eye suddenly begin spending time together, problems will arise. Most people are already out of the house by 7am. Some have to take the children to school. If you live in a very busy city like Lagos, you may not even get home till about 10 or 11pm, and the next thing you do is go to bed and sleep. The next morning the cycle continues.

These things provided some kind of buffers and management for fractured relationships. Because you spend little or no time together, there was really no incidence or opportunity for violence to escalate. But all of a sudden, you now find that you are stuck with the person. They are in your face. You are in their face and then Covid-19 also came with its own psychological challenges. It gave people so much time on their hands; you have nothing to do. It was subsequently that some kind of routine started coming in, as in virtual working and all that. But in the first 2 – 3 weeks, it was a complete halt. Everything came to a screeching stop, you know. So this person that you cannot stand, you’re now with them. You’re forced to be with them; to confront your issues; to deal with your challenges.

 A lot of people caved in, and don’t forget the economics of it too. There were economic challenges. The majority of Nigerians live from daily earnings. That was taken away; even the people who earn salaries. For some months people didn’t receive salaries. People who received salaries received a reduced percentage, so, there was a lot of factors that collided; that came together to exacerbate an already difficult situation.  

L&S: Aside from domestic violence on women, the rape of underage girls has equally increased and it cuts across every tribe and region in the country. None is exempt.

Answer: The surge in underage rape and gender based violence is nothing short of an abomination and glaring evidence of moral/social depravity and legal inefficiency in the country! There seem to be some wave of pervasion going across and it’s a global thing.

I think it has its roots in the erosion of our values. Our values have completely eroded, even though we have churches and mosques. And all of these are springing up in every corner. Yet, there is no co-relation with the effect. The positive effect that one will ordinarily expect from all of that is not happening. We now have what I may describe as a very permissive society. You know, and I think that a lot of people have poisoned their minds in terms of what they have allowed into their systems. For instance, pornography is now just one touch away. It’s just a click of the button away.

L&S: Is there any relationship?

Answer: Yes. I’m saying that all of these things poison your mind, because when you go down that part… Child pornography for instance is a big deal. Billions of dollars are involved in this global syndicate. The volume of revenue that is being yielded from child pornography is huge. Do you see what I mean? It is now a trade; a commodity. And it is because of all these things that people get into weird entertainment. In addition to that, there is no accountability or consequences. Nobody gets punished for these things, and there are so many factors that comes into it. It is not just the failure of the court system, it is families. A father sexually abuses his daughter and the mother keeps quiet.

L&S: Or the child will be told to keep quiet and the abuse continues.

Answer: Exactly. So many people put their own selfish interest first. You don’t want to lose your marriage even though the marriage is a sham. There’s nothing left of that marriage you know. Even, in FIDA, in the litigation committee where we get some of these reports, some of the victims who find the courage to come out and seek justice gets harassed by family members.

You will still find that it is family members who collude and torment the victims. They’d say ‘what do you want to achieve by what you have done? What has happened has happened.’ Sometimes you hear people talk about settlement. They would rather receive money from the perpetrators than pursue prosecution. You see, there are so many factors. And then, for the handful of cases that eventually get to court, proof becomes another problem because of lots of times, from the time when the incident occurred… From the time of rape and when it was reported, or even when the child first opened up to anybody, it is usually a long time. There is usually some gap, and it is that time that evidence is lost. So there is hardly any scientific means and this is not a situation where we have an eye witness to the crime. This offence of rape usually happens in secrecy, so it is my word against your word, and except in a very rare case, where the perpetrator admits to having done that, you are hardly ever able to establish a good case and the courts are not courts of sentiments.

L&S: There are instances where rape or violation of a minor as the case maybe was established, but the judges chose instead to mete out the least punishment.

Answer: Yes, but this is now a question of the judges. There is nothing you or I can do about it. It is entirely within the discretion of the courts, but if the court appreciates that there is a real issue, that there is a different element to it, then maybe they may be more, or not be so lenient. And don’t forget that in criminal cases, there is what we called “allocutus” where even if a confession is made, or a conviction is secured, the court gives the defendant an opportunity to make a case as to why he should not be sentenced.

Sentencing is a different matter altogether. Sometimes, the court may consider the age of the offender, because the court may consider that this is a first time crime. The court may consider other factors like, maybe you were intoxicated or maybe under the influence of hard drugs. Don’t forget also the pandemic of drug abuse that is going on.

L&S: What about the victim?

Answer: I’m not the Judge. I’m just saying that, a lot of times when we make these comments, we are not privy to the judgment of the court. That is to say, we only hear the summary of it but we don’t know. We have not read the judgment to see how the points were arrived at. I’m not holding brief for the courts though. I’m one of the advocates of stiff punishments for crimes against children. Rape of women and children are real dehumanizing crimes.

L&S: The Penal Code prescribes less punishment for rape than the Violence Against Persons (Prohibition) (VAAP) Act 2015, yet police prosecutors prefer to use Penal Code in rape cases.

Answer: That is a shame. Maybe we need to actually drag the police to court to challenge the legality of the continued application of the Penal Code vis-à-vis the VAAP Act, especially for those offences that the Act has repealed. The Act is very clear. There is a repeal clause there, that all of these offences as contained in the penal code or any other law have now been repeated. So quite frankly, the police prosecuting any of those offenses covered under the VAAP Act, under the Penal Code is a shame.

My disappointment with the police is so wide, because the police is an institution in this country that probably has the most number of lawyers. When you look at the pedigree of the police, you may find just a handful of IGPs that were not lawyers. There are so many officers who are lawyers, but it does not translate in the execution of their mandate. The police remains the most lawless institution in the country. The police remain the institution with the highest human rights violation in this country. Look at even the ENDSARS thing. In spite of the gravity of that protest, you will find from recent events and occurrence that the police has learnt nothing since that protest.

We are still seeing videos of the police, including the so called disbanded SARS still brutalizing citizens. I’m saying prior to that time, one see videos of them beating, flogging people just dehumanizing people generally and this is so unfortunate. It’s most unfortunate even now that after all the protest about police brutality, nothing has changed.

I personally feel that the police is not sincere about fighting crime involving women and children. The other day, FIDA had a meeting where the head of the Gender Unit, was part of the programme and all that. She spoke well, but translating it into action is another thing. Sometimes, I appreciate the challenges they have in terms of manpower, in terms of resources. When I talk about resources, I mean operational resources like vehicle, and all of these things that should make their work easier and even though their services are supposed to be free you’d discover that when we (FIDA) take matters to the police and similar agencies, we still need to put hands into our pockets to mobilize for action if we need to achieve any kind of result. I know that recently, FIDA has been involved in a project on “Gender responsive budgeting” in terms of safe budgeting. How public fund is spent. These agencies handling or battling gender violence should have specific budgets to cover their work but so far it is not available.

L&S: In all these, what’s the way forward on gender violence and violence against children?

Answer: Women and children really need to take their place in the society or at least get what is rightfully theirs, even by the mere existence. We are talking about the issues of human rights, here. Now they say women’s rights are human rights, so we are talking about 50% of our population in the world.

L&S: What about men? Is it all about women?

Answer: It is women all the time because there is a huge imbalance that we are trying to correct. There is a huge injustice that has its roots in patriarchy across the world that we are trying to correct. So it’s not as if the focus is women, women, women. We are just trying to address the problem. The men don’t have much issues. They have always been in charge. They have always been in control. It is the crumbs; what they have allowed over the years, over the centuries is what women have had. Have you ever heard of a time when men were not to vote? But there was a time when women could not vote; even back in the USA. When were women allowed to vote? Here in Nigeria, you go back and trace women’s voting rights back to the Aba women riot.  

No man for instance complains about the right to hold land. It is something that is endowed to them as their status as men once they’re born. It’s like human rights that are inalienable. It accrues to you by the mere fact that you are a man. It’s not same for women, In many cultures here in Nigeria, cannot women hold land. You don’t hear about any man who is disinherited, but women are disinherited by the more fact that they are born women.

Left for me, I like practical solutions, my personal view is that, until each woman takes charge of her life, gender violence will not end. To be honest with you, there are too many of us condoning gender violence, and for numerous reasons. ‘Oh this is a marriage, you can’t walk away like that.’ ‘Oh you have children.’ But I find that one of the largest considerations is economic factor. It boils down to the issue of women and poverty. A lot of women stay because they are not always in a position to fend for themselves when they leave the marriage. Then a handful of instances where there are financially empowered women who condone it and all of those are because of issues of shame, stigma in the society. ‘My children need their father and all that.’ I feel that leaving children in a violent situation causes more harm than good.

A lot of these children are scarred for life, especially when they witness it and it is inevitable that they will witness it every now and then. So we end up raising a very dysfunctional society. So many people are damaged. So many people are damaged from all of the effects from their childhood.

L&S: But some people insist that broken homes have their own baggage.

Answer: We have so many damaged people in the society, and they are all from broken homes? Take the census. You will see that it doesn’t tally. A lot of the people who perpetrate all these things grew up in homes with both parents. But both parents being there does not necessarily translate the love and care and attention for children. It’s just like the exposure now of children, we were talking to rape and all of these things. I mentioned the issue of perversion in the society. The lack of consequences and all that. But there is also an element of exploitation. There is a huge element of exploitation tied to economic gain. A lot of these children who are usually molested apart from the very unfortunate cases of breach of trust, that is to say where a father or somebody who ordinarily should protect a child, is the perpetrator, more often than not, a lot of these children especially the girl child… These things happen outside the home especially children who hawk, or your send your child go to some place unsupervised. How old is the child?

And once they go out there, they cannot protect themselves. They become vulnerable to the elements but someone is at home. Whatever the child is hawking belongs to some adult somewhere who is sitting at home perhaps doing nothing or there is a role reversal, where a child is now the one fending for the parents. It is a different thing when a child is supporting or assisting with home chores and all that. Otherwise, this is exploitation. Child labour. And because the state is overwhelmed, the state has not put anything in place. Look at our laws. When you read the Child’s Right Act, you will see all of these things are prohibited and punishments prescribed. We are very sentimental society. That is also one of the biggest impediments and why we are not making much progress. Sentiments everywhere. It is exhibited in our homes. It is exhibited in government institutions. The people who should enforce the law will say eh…eh, this is a family matter.

For a very long time domestic abuse of any colouration was waved away as family matter. For a very long time, even till today, there are still women who will report to you that, when they go to the police to complain, they will be told “Madam, go and settle now. Go and settle.” Even when you refuse, the matter does not get the seriousness that it required. A lot of law enforcements agents don’t consider it as a serious issue. There is also some kind of element of negligence in the sense that… Do we pay attention to what is going on with our children? Why as a parent should I be comfortable at any particular point in time when I cannot account for the where-about of my children whether male or female? This is different from the instance that I told you of the breach of trust where you leave a child in an environment which you consider to be safe but that is not what you get. It’s all a Cocktail of issues. So many factors contributing.

L&S: What’s the way forward?

Answer: The way forward is to take individual responsibility because the state has failed and in a sense, I believe that prevention is better than cure. If there is a way to prevent the cry ab initio then we should do that. As parents, we should consider not exposing our children to some of these factors. All these children you see hawking one thing or the other, when they should be in school, that is not a sight to see.

In conclusion, the big matter that we are all shying away from, maybe because it is not a political correct or our cultural or religious sentiments and all that is- family planning. There needs to be a nationwide sensitization to people about bearing the number of children they can afford. There is a direct relationship between the number of children and poverty. There is a direct correlation. The cost of bring up four to five children is not the same as that of two. And we live in a society where you have just one child, you can’t afford to take care of that child, you have a second one. You still can’t afford to take care of the two and then you have a third and more. We don’t appreciate that there is an economic element to having children.

Look at our population and then you look at the growth of the population of Western Nations. The disparity is astronomical. It is enormous. Then you begin to wonder why those western countries are able to have a safe society where things are working. Why? Because people consider these factors. They think. You have young people who are working, and they will still tell you that there is a budget even before they get married. Before they start having children, they will tell you there is a fair idea of the cost on particular child. That’s not what we have here, and nobody is addressing this critical issue.

Question: But our people it’s God that gives children.

Answer: God gives but when it happens, do they call God? Seriously, they will call Lillian Okenwa or they will call me. They will call a sister or some relation and this is transferring pressure. There is an importance placed on children in our clime that is entirely misplaced. In my humbly view, it’s important to have children, but when you die, your children are not buried with you, you know. We always have this thing, LEGACY, LEGACY, LEGACY. That rhetoric needs to change. That orientation needs to change. Your children are not your legacy. I know this is not a popular thing to say your children are not your legacy. What you do for yourself and for your society is a legacy. Till today everybody talks about “Madiba” when you think of Madiba and you remember him, you do remember the number of children he had? Do you even know his children other than one or two popular ones? None of his kids have been able to rise into that phenomenal height he rose to, because everybody has their own lives to live.

Even Martin Luther King that we celebrate, everyday do you remember him for the number of children he had? Here in Nigeria, when you talk about Zik of Africa, when you talk about Tafawa Balewa, Sardauna or Ojukwu, do you remember them for their children? You will remember them for the life they lived, their convictions and their contributions to the struggle and their personal values. That’s all we remember them for. We need to address this whole dysfunction. No matter what government wants to provide, as long as there is that disparity between resources and the number of people, there will always be problem. You can’t bridge that gap. The gap is widening every day. Look at all the countries they tell you are the poverty capitals of the world. What do they have in common? What they have in common is population.